jared schickling to me
11/2/09
Eliot Weinberger—Statement for “poetry is news” conference—February 2003
Chuck Richardson to jared
11/2/09
I agree with 90 percent of that. Particularly intriguing is the idea that the next youth movement will be characterized by iconoclastic asceticism. I hope so. It seems to me the best form of resistance is to do more than say "no," but actually be "no." [Beano. I made a joke!] It's a form of civil disobedience. But rather than protesting in the streets, breaking the law, pies in face, etc., it would be far more effective if people simply came to the realization that they would prefer not to do these things, would prefer not to be good Americans, devout Christians, disciplined soldiers, worshipped everyday heroes, et al. Every opportunity to do something traditional that Americans and peoples in empires throughout history have always done--get married, pay taxes, raise a family, do good works, obey, disobey, see themselves as citizens and subjects and members of something, et al--one might simply say "I would prefer not to." The system would rapidly collapse if enough of the right people--those who feel like it--said "no." And I'm not talking about Atlas shrugging as Ayn Rand would put it...More like apes simply tiring of all the rules and going off to pick fleas from each other in peace. This, of course, entails cultivating the proper form[s] of ignorance. We idealize the cultivation of knowledge and ignore the cultivation of ignorance. We never discuss what we choose to ignore, though every human being alive must choose to ignore most data if it's to function and get through the day. And of course, it takes a great deal of courage to cultivate enlightened ignorance, a great deal of fear to be ignorantly interested [if nothing matters, if "God" is dead, if we're randomly evolved beings, the pursuit of knowledge seems an effort to deny that and therefore the ultimate in delusional behavior]. Knowledge as the emergency of fear is the worst kind of ignorance because it's not cultivated. The emergency of a properly cultivated ignorance provides a sweet form of knowledge allowing the self to function smoothly amid all the meaninglessness. We're essentially meaning machines that ignore the nature of our ignorance and suffer greatly for it. And the greater the suffering the harder it is to ignore.
That was a good essay and it's got me thinking. I'm open to a bit of argument. I left a great deal unsaid. It could develop into a kind of manifesto in simple English. Thanks.
jared schickling to me
11/2/09
Knowledge as your using it here reminds me of capital. Which as we've heard, can be a strange thing, laying golden eggs. If the pursuit of knowledge becomes the pursuit of capital, then I can see how we'd transition absolutely into ignorance. But knowledge, as knowledge, seems not only possible but desirable. Its pursuit not always "delusional." (I'm not sure we're completely "randomly evolved" either -- certain developments look entirely reasonable -- though a reasonable process might hatch from random ones, so random ones might from reasonable ones, as reason requires, perhaps dictates, such uncontrollable excess --
But what you're suggesting is a kind of knowledge that's valuable in the first place --
"Knowledge as the emergency of fear is the worst kind of ignorance because it's not cultivated. The emergency of a properly cultivated ignorance provides a sweet form of knowledge allowing the self to function smoothly amid all the meaninglessness."
Unless, one has reason to fear, in which case the "sweet" of knowledge "allowing the self to function smoothly" is a more potent ignorance? Does the reason to fear disappear? Does fear impede or pave ones way -- likewise any other emotion?
What are the evolutionary currencies of fear, love, ignorance, knowledge, meaning, imagination? IS everything meaningless, or is meaning an inherent part of the process wherever meaning occurs? What kind of animal, parasite, farmer is meaning (remembering memes)? Does it have a face?
Chuck Richardson to jared
11/3/09
hey. i'm pasting the stuff below into a word file with the intent of addressing everything with as much brevity as possible. it will take as long as it takes, because as usual your questions are somewhat tangential to where I'm going but definitely in the same direction. i'll send it to you when i'm finished and you can expand on it if you wish. it's a conversation that will end when it ends and when it's over we have the option of publishing it, saving it, or forgetting about it. it'll be up to us. i feel a need to try and flat out just say some things to put the fiction into a larger context. that's what i liked about the link you sent, which basically says extraordinary times require extraordinary measures, and writers are not excluded from this. it's our fundamental responsibility to try and boil it down into a language our brothers and sisters can digest willingly. and that's a huge fucking challenge. it's not an artistic challenge. it's an eco-political-economic one that's embedded itself in our psychology. in my opinion, however, one must first graduate from artistic challenges to have the necessary mental sophistication and proper level of physical skill to cope with and adapt to the complexities of the presently conceived eco-political-economic crises of perceptions...if that makes sense. i'm trying. i'll add this to the file mentioned above.
jared schickling to me
11/3/09
That sounds like a plan. I like the idea of being part of some critical-prose-become what it may statement on art and commitments and practice and whatever else you decide to talk about. I like it particularly in that I'll (as I'm reading what you're proposing) be given limited fragments and chunks and thoughts to consider, my comments more or less fuel for the larger thinking you'll be doing.
The piece I sent was linked to from a recent interview with Kent Johnson at the Argotist. It's worth a read, if for nothing else Johnson's impressive life. It's curious to me that those Nicaraguan poetry workshops haven't been studied very closely. Out of a bunch of "uneducated" worker groups reading and writing poetry -- activities beneath, in service to, larger material plights -- we have 4 or 5 translated anthologies rivaling any American poetry anthology, in my opinion (I've two on my shelf).
11/2/09
Eliot Weinberger—Statement for “poetry is news” conference—February 2003
Chuck Richardson to jared
11/2/09
I agree with 90 percent of that. Particularly intriguing is the idea that the next youth movement will be characterized by iconoclastic asceticism. I hope so. It seems to me the best form of resistance is to do more than say "no," but actually be "no." [Beano. I made a joke!] It's a form of civil disobedience. But rather than protesting in the streets, breaking the law, pies in face, etc., it would be far more effective if people simply came to the realization that they would prefer not to do these things, would prefer not to be good Americans, devout Christians, disciplined soldiers, worshipped everyday heroes, et al. Every opportunity to do something traditional that Americans and peoples in empires throughout history have always done--get married, pay taxes, raise a family, do good works, obey, disobey, see themselves as citizens and subjects and members of something, et al--one might simply say "I would prefer not to." The system would rapidly collapse if enough of the right people--those who feel like it--said "no." And I'm not talking about Atlas shrugging as Ayn Rand would put it...More like apes simply tiring of all the rules and going off to pick fleas from each other in peace. This, of course, entails cultivating the proper form[s] of ignorance. We idealize the cultivation of knowledge and ignore the cultivation of ignorance. We never discuss what we choose to ignore, though every human being alive must choose to ignore most data if it's to function and get through the day. And of course, it takes a great deal of courage to cultivate enlightened ignorance, a great deal of fear to be ignorantly interested [if nothing matters, if "God" is dead, if we're randomly evolved beings, the pursuit of knowledge seems an effort to deny that and therefore the ultimate in delusional behavior]. Knowledge as the emergency of fear is the worst kind of ignorance because it's not cultivated. The emergency of a properly cultivated ignorance provides a sweet form of knowledge allowing the self to function smoothly amid all the meaninglessness. We're essentially meaning machines that ignore the nature of our ignorance and suffer greatly for it. And the greater the suffering the harder it is to ignore.
That was a good essay and it's got me thinking. I'm open to a bit of argument. I left a great deal unsaid. It could develop into a kind of manifesto in simple English. Thanks.
jared schickling to me
11/2/09
Knowledge as your using it here reminds me of capital. Which as we've heard, can be a strange thing, laying golden eggs. If the pursuit of knowledge becomes the pursuit of capital, then I can see how we'd transition absolutely into ignorance. But knowledge, as knowledge, seems not only possible but desirable. Its pursuit not always "delusional." (I'm not sure we're completely "randomly evolved" either -- certain developments look entirely reasonable -- though a reasonable process might hatch from random ones, so random ones might from reasonable ones, as reason requires, perhaps dictates, such uncontrollable excess --
But what you're suggesting is a kind of knowledge that's valuable in the first place --
"Knowledge as the emergency of fear is the worst kind of ignorance because it's not cultivated. The emergency of a properly cultivated ignorance provides a sweet form of knowledge allowing the self to function smoothly amid all the meaninglessness."
Unless, one has reason to fear, in which case the "sweet" of knowledge "allowing the self to function smoothly" is a more potent ignorance? Does the reason to fear disappear? Does fear impede or pave ones way -- likewise any other emotion?
What are the evolutionary currencies of fear, love, ignorance, knowledge, meaning, imagination? IS everything meaningless, or is meaning an inherent part of the process wherever meaning occurs? What kind of animal, parasite, farmer is meaning (remembering memes)? Does it have a face?
Chuck Richardson to jared
11/3/09
hey. i'm pasting the stuff below into a word file with the intent of addressing everything with as much brevity as possible. it will take as long as it takes, because as usual your questions are somewhat tangential to where I'm going but definitely in the same direction. i'll send it to you when i'm finished and you can expand on it if you wish. it's a conversation that will end when it ends and when it's over we have the option of publishing it, saving it, or forgetting about it. it'll be up to us. i feel a need to try and flat out just say some things to put the fiction into a larger context. that's what i liked about the link you sent, which basically says extraordinary times require extraordinary measures, and writers are not excluded from this. it's our fundamental responsibility to try and boil it down into a language our brothers and sisters can digest willingly. and that's a huge fucking challenge. it's not an artistic challenge. it's an eco-political-economic one that's embedded itself in our psychology. in my opinion, however, one must first graduate from artistic challenges to have the necessary mental sophistication and proper level of physical skill to cope with and adapt to the complexities of the presently conceived eco-political-economic crises of perceptions...if that makes sense. i'm trying. i'll add this to the file mentioned above.
jared schickling to me
11/3/09
That sounds like a plan. I like the idea of being part of some critical-prose-become what it may statement on art and commitments and practice and whatever else you decide to talk about. I like it particularly in that I'll (as I'm reading what you're proposing) be given limited fragments and chunks and thoughts to consider, my comments more or less fuel for the larger thinking you'll be doing.
The piece I sent was linked to from a recent interview with Kent Johnson at the Argotist. It's worth a read, if for nothing else Johnson's impressive life. It's curious to me that those Nicaraguan poetry workshops haven't been studied very closely. Out of a bunch of "uneducated" worker groups reading and writing poetry -- activities beneath, in service to, larger material plights -- we have 4 or 5 translated anthologies rivaling any American poetry anthology, in my opinion (I've two on my shelf).
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